> "Capitalism" and "capitalist society" are not synonyms. _Most_ of the
> activity in a capitalist society is _not_ part of (though profoundly
> affected by) capitalism.
Carrol, This is where I disagree with you.
All of the positions in society you mention here and below, including farmers and government workers, peasants in Central America trying to live on subsistence farming, even workers in companies owned by the workers themselves, and yes even the cops who maintain the capitalist order; they are all forced into capitalist social and economic relations in our society. The commodification of labor power, land, and exchange, effects the manager and the public school teacher, and the priest, the doctor, the lawyer, the tinker, tailor, soldier, spy.
But let me go a step further. Doug's "between classes" formulation is not necessarily a socio-economic designation but it is a precise assessment of the political economy of capitalism.
If you need a writ from Marx I would suggest looking at the political analysis in the 18th Brumaire. For you Trotskyists out there I suggest the essays in *The Struggle Against Fascism in Germany*.
> Public schools are clearly a major institution of most capitalist
> societies, and it is capitalist politics that determine the pay and working
> conditions of public school employees (teachers, janitors, etc). But
> teaching clearly does not create value (in the Marxist sense of "value." In
> the early 20th-c a large part of the population consisted of independent
> farmers, small merchants, independent professionals, school teachers,
> government employees, etc Doug writes " But the essence of the p.b. is to
> be between classes," but this is obviously false in reference to teachers,
> physicians, or social workers.
> My guess is that police, lower level managers, are simply declassed.
> Perhaps they could be usefully termed running dogs & capitalist lackeys.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of Carrol Cox
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 12:46 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Petty Bourgeois (was "Big Business Takes
> Distance... ")
> But the essence of the p.b. is to be between classes, the proletariat and
> the bourgeoisie. They vacillate, and are politically unreliable. I’m
> talking middle managers, engineers, etc.
> No. The (classical) pb were _outside_ capitalism, independent peasantry
> being the essence of the class.