I guess I am going to at least partially back off from some of my remarks, and give some ground to both Marta and Max. This has to do with the Catholic Church again. I'll grant that I was unfair to label Father Howard a "jackboot." Heck, for all I know the guy is a saint, although I continue to be offended by his demand that Singer be fired from Princeton for his views.
I'll grant that in the current debates the Catholic Church has a more consistent view than most of the rest of the anti-abortion crowd. In contrast to most of these folks I think it is accurate that the Church makes some effort to call for support for children after they are born as well as before. Thus, they do not fall into the hypocrisy of "supporting the rights of the unborn up to the time of their birth, but not beyond." I don't agree with the Church's position, but I'll grant them some consistency.
However, there certainly are jackboots among the anti-abortionists, Eric Rudolph being a leading example. And calls for people being fired for their views are certainly in the direction of jackbootedness. Barkley Rosser On Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:50:06 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) "Rosser Jr, John Barkley" <rosserjb at jmu.edu> wrote:
> Jim,
> By and large I agree with your response to Marta.
> However it should be noted that the Catholic Church did not
> support the election of Hitler, even though he greatly
> admired the Jesuit Order and saw it as a model for his
> Gestapo and had his original base in highly Catholic
> Bavaria.
> But in the election of 1932 he was opposed by the
> largely Catholic Center Party and did not do well in
> Catholic areas. His base, as I have noted before on this
> list, was in rural Protestant areas, at least in terms of
> voting support.
> Of course it is also true that the Catholic Church did
> way too little to oppose Hitler's policies once he was in
> power. The Church's outrage about the disabled was indeed
> rather an isolated business.
> Barkley Rosser
> On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:37:37 -0500 James Farmelant
> <farmelantj at juno.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:53:13 -0800 Marta Russell <ap888 at lafn.org> writes:
> >
> > >The point of forwarding the article was to inform. But I do have to
> > >say that in
> > >defense of what you call "jackbooted "pro-lifers", when the Nazis
> > >started killing
> > >disabled people in Germany the group which stopped Hitler and the
> > >physicians was the
> > >Catholic Church headed by Bishop von Galen, a conservative.
> >
> > That is true but I would be more impressed if the Church had similarly
> > stood up against the murder of Jews, Gypsies, communists, gays
> > etc. as well. Since in fact both the Catholic and Protestant churches
> > were not only avid supporters of Hitler's election as chancellor in
> > 1933 but remained strong supporters of the regime long afterwards
> > perhaps Marta can forgive me if I seem less than impressed with
> > the humanitarianism of the German clergy.
> >
> >
> > > So I
> > >hesitate to condemn
> > >people with a label, when sometimes they come forth at the right time
> > >and question
> > >the liberals who prize themselves on being the defenders of the
> > >downtrodden but often
> > >act falsely. Geraldine Farraro, Pat Schroeder, Henry Waxman, Barney
> > >Frank all
> > >supported allowing Baby Jane Doe to die of starvation. It was
> > >(surprise) Henry Hyde
> > >who stood up to protect the rights of the baby under the constitution.
> >
> > Wasn't it Barney Frank who first said that "right to lifers" believe
> > in human rights up to the moment of birth? Now we are told that
> > Congressman Hyde is willing to extend human rights up to the
> > first month after birth. I suppose that is progress of a sort.
> >
> >
> > What mystifies me here is that Marta seems quick to allie herself
> > with the religious right - the very same people who have no inhibitions
> > about cutting back social welfare programs that benefit the disabled
> > amongst others. I am not sure what political calculations are involved
> > here but it all seems rather daft to me.
> >
> > Jim Farmelant
> > >
> > >I've learned not be so quick to put all the right wingers in one boat,
> > >and condemn
> > >them all of the time.
> > >
> > >Marta Russell
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________________
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>
> --
> Rosser Jr, John Barkley
> rosserjb at jmu.edu
>
>
-- Rosser Jr, John Barkley rosserjb at jmu.edu