Hey, while we're on the subject of names, I think I'll subject you all to some more about the use of first names in the Arab world. Not only do we have Bandar bin Sultan (Bandar son of Sultan of the Saud family), we have the Saudi foreign minister, whom the newspapers usually designate as "Saud Faisal," or occasionally even more inaccurately "Saud al Faisal."
Well, his full name is Sa'ud ibn Faisal ibn Abdulaziz al Sa'ud (Sa'ud son of Faisal son of Abdulaziz of the Sa'ud family). Thus, if one were to mindlessly do the usual kneejerk western thing and call him by his first and last name (that's what the computer is programmed for, after all), he would be Sa'ud Sa'ud. Having been educated at Harvard he knows how that would not be as well received as "Saud Faisal" among idiot westerners. (BTW, the ' stands in for a consonant in the Arabic alphabet).
Another phenomenon in the Arab world is that after people have children, especially a son, they will sometimes start calling themselves "Father (or Mother) of (Son's Name)". Father is "Abu" and Mother is "Umm" or "Oum." Thus there are a lot of very proud "Abu Muhammed"s running around (Muhammed is the most common first name for a male in the world). And the most popular female singer in the Arab world, at least until recently, was the late Egyptian singer known as Oum Kalsoum.
And, just to put a political twist on all this, sometimes when people take noms de guerre (or revolution) they use the same trick but with an outcome attached. Thus, there was a well-known Palestinian activist who was named Abu Jihad, "Father of Holy War." I think the Israelis killed him.
And it is not just in China and Korea that people put the family name first. It is also done in Hungary, showing the Asiatic roots of that people. Barkley Rosser -----Original Message----- From: Oiboy27 at aol.com <Oiboy27 at aol.com> To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 7:37 PM Subject: Re: Saddam
>In a message dated 99-09-22 03:42:48 EDT, you write:
>
><< It reminds me of the way American southerners would only refer to
> African-Americans by their first names' -- never as "Mr.," or "Mrs." It's
> deliberately condescending.
> >>
>
>No shit. I hate gratuitious informality anyway.
>