The "ends" that the "Democratic Left" discussion group is trying to achieve, namely, avoiding "flame-wars" and promoting an environment for "productive and friendly... dialogue," are acceptable to me. I, too, avoid the unmoderated Yahoo discussion groups that you (Wojtek) speak of for the same reasons that you mention in your post.
However, isn't it the "means" that the "Democratic Left" discussion group attempts to employ the problem? Mr. Casey has requested that he be given the ability to "screen all individuals who indicate a desire to join." First, I do not see how this "screening" process is any guarantee that the "Democratic Left" discussion group will be able to avoid the kind of disrespectful postings that you quote in your email, Wojtek. Second, wasn't the US Constitution all about "means?" But this second point is an entirely separate other conversation that I won't go into now, yet, I'm sure you know where I'm going here.
In any event, I wrote back to Mr Casey suggesting he can achieve the same ends (to "avoid .... flame-wars") by implementing different means, by implementing software that will facilitate a Moderator and selecting a strong Moderator who will mediate such "flaming" activity. Yet, even this solution could be attacked by censorship defenders for its hypocracy.
I think Chomsky said it best, "either you believe in Free Speech or you don't, there is no middle ground." (paraphrased)
Steven
-----Original Message----- From: owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com [mailto:owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com] On Behalf Of Wojtek Sokolowski Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 9:19 AM To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com Subject: RE: Democratic Left_ list (UFT)
I think it is a very sensible request. Unfortunately, many people (especially US males) use the anonymity of internet to dumpt the pathetic contents of their pea-brains. The messages on Yahoo boards connected to their news service is a case in point. Sometimes I browse it to see what's on th eminds of American people with college education (I think these the people who have the capacity to participate in thes exchanges) - and that is a scary world indeed. Here as some recent quotations:
Becasue they are willing to die for something, as opposed to you pathetic liberals. (sent by daisycutterblu82, age 32, Denver, CO)
No, I just hate liberals enough to line you all up and take a M60 to your asses. (sent by geobronc/ male no age or location)
So Hillary is a chickenhawk? Yak yak yak another dirty hippy blowing hot air and throwing around ad-hominem attacks. You silly lefties are so predictable. Let me guess do you support Arafat and the oppressed peoples of Palistine? I can't own a gun, but you support Saddam owning a nice pile of nuclear warheads. (another gem sent by the prolific daisycutterblu82 of Denver, CO).
wawawawawawawa (sent by just_crapped_on_a_liberal, real name: George, age 44, male, Austin TX)
and so on and so forth - the cream of the US intelligence at work.
wojtek
-----Original Message----- From: owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com [mailto:owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com] On Behalf Of Steven Hertzberg Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:15 AM To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com Subject: FW: Democratic Left_ list (UFT)
When I tried to sign up for the "Democratic Left" email discussion group, I received the following message. I guess to enter their discussion forum, you have to pass Leo Casey's concept of "Democratic Left." I think I'll pass on this one.
Steven
-----Original Message----- From: LeoCasey at aol.com [mailto:LeoCasey at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:44 AM To: mailinglist at navari.com Subject: (no subject)
In order to ensure productive and friendly dialogue and debate on the _Democratic Left_ list, and to avoid the acrimony and flame-wars which appear on some Internet lists, we screen all individuals who indicate a desire to join our list. If you tell us who you are, and why you would like to participate, we will act on your request.
Leo Casey United Federation of Teachers 260 Park Avenue South New York, New York 10010-7272 (212-598-6869)
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never has, and it never will. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its waters. -- Frederick Douglass --
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