pms wrote:
>
> So Carrol. You know I don't know much about history. But I have read that
> Musselini(er, whatever) guy's quote many times, that facism is the
> convergence of corporations and THE State. It seems to me that that is what
> we're dealing with, is it not? Now. Ain't that facism? If not, pls
> 'splain.
Chip can explain far better than I can, but let me make a couple of points. Fascism (the real thing) was a form of populism, a mass movement. What you quote from Mussolini was part of its propaganda, but corporations in the phrase did _not_ mean corporations in the legal sense. It was supposed to include labor, churches, every damn kind of "corporate" body -- note that "corporate body" is a redundancy, like "wet water." The kind of corporate convergence you are speaking of has _always_ characterized capitalism.
The ex-Kaiser in exile in Belgium wrote that sooner or later the "problem" of the Jews needed to be solved, and he used words not too different from Nazi words. And this was before anyone had ever heard of Hitler. But the Kaiser was _not_ a Nazi; he manifested a particular form of authoritarian rule under capitalism. The ninny would have been incapable of even imagining a mass movement around his despotic ideas.
Calling Bush "fascist" _blurs_ rather than reveals the kind of "anti-democratic" threat he represents; it also blurs how damn repressive the most "open" of capitalist democracies can be. It also blurs the fact that a nation can be as vicious from the viewpoint of _all_ the world as Hitler without being that vicious to its own populace, or at least to the _whole_ of its populace. Lynch rule in the south was _not_ fascist_ but it was just as bad as fascism from the perspective of its victims.
Carrol
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
> To: <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:57 PM
> Subject: Re: the smartest fascist?
>
> >
> >
> > R wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >If America were Fascist every American on this listerv would be dead or
> in
> > > >a concentration camp.
> > >
> > > very likely. hell of a place to meet your internet friends isn't
> > > it. Carrol, i'll be looking for you.
> >
> > Some or many of us might well end up dead or in a concentration camp --
> > but that would not be evidence for the U.S. being fascist. It could
> > easily just be an instance of the marvellous repressive power of
> > capitalist democracy -- or it could be a quite new form of authoritarian
> > state. This habit of using "fascism" as an all-purpose pejorative is
> > worse than stupid -- it's dangerous. It will prevent our organizing
> > about real authoritarian threats, not just ghosts from the inter-war
> > period.
> >
> > Carrol
> >