BrownBingb at aol.com wrote:
> CB: Don't tell me your position is not that ANSWER is a front for WWP
ChuckO: Everybody knows that ANSWER is a front group for the WWP. That's old news.
CB: Right. Let me spell things out in more detail since you are having trouble finding coherence in the posts. I was responding to your sarcasm with sarcasm. I said WWP had done good work. You responded sarcastically that ANSWER is not WWP. I thought I would just cut through that whole other redbaiting gambit by saying, hey, since you are going to say in a pejorative way that ANSWER is a front group for WWP , I'll grant you that and turn it around on you and make it that since ANSWER is doing good organizing, presto, low and behold ,that means WWP is doing good organizing.
As background , the whole accusation of "fronting" against communist parties in the US is a damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't bullshit move put on them by none other than the redbaiters of the last 80 years or so. First they make it a basis for destroying the Communist Party's (or Workers World) work in the unions or anti-racist movement by redbaiting them for acting in the name "Communist". Then when the Communists try to do work anyway, and avoid that redbaiting by not acting in the name "Communist" , the accusation of "fronting" type redbaiting is used. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. You are participating in that fine tradition of redbaiting and anti-communism in this aspect of your discussion.
> CB: My comment is very coherent and understandable. That's just another
> phony comment from you in an effort to avoid criticism and
> accountability. You are the one ranting all over the list on this.
> That's what is clear to most people.
I didn't find it very coherent at all. I don't know who you are, but this sudden attack on me on this list is quite curious.
CB: It is no more curious than your ongoing attack on ANSWER and WWP. What difference does it make who I am ? Anyway, I have been on this list from its beginning, though I have been off it for about the last 8 months. My name is Charles Brown. My old address was Charlesb at etc. If you want to get an idea "who" I am, look in the archives.
^^^^^^
By the way, I'm hardly alone on this list in ranting about the WWP and ANSWER. The dislike of ANSWER
and the WWP not only permeates this list, but through all flavors of activist
circles. You'd be surprised at how much dislike of ANSWER is brewing out there.
CB: I didn't say you were alone. I said you are wrong. I'm not surprised at all at redbaiting and anti-communism. It's rife, including in a lot of the Left. What you aren't admitting is how much "like" and respect ANSWER is getting from the giant masses of people who are participating in the peace efforts. That's what is new. And it aggravates many of those of you who have been badgering ANSWER and WWP for a long time, because by your estimate , they weren't supposed to have this kind of success among "mainstream" people. They are supposed to be so sectarian that they can only organize very small numbers. The facts of recent events contradict your line on ANSWER and WWP. That's the sour grapes and envy.
> "Redbaiting" is an intra-movement counter-criticism of you that you are
> trying to avoid accountability on.
It's a bullshit charge against me that is designed to stifle any criticism within the movement of sectarian groups like the WWP who have engaged in disruption of other activist groups and who practice sectarianism and parasitism. The chief reason why I am so outspoken against ANSWER and the WWP
is because I've seen too many cases over the years where the American left engaged in tactics to shut up intra-movement critics.
^^^^^^
CB: You aren't the only intra-movement critic. I am one too , and I'm critcizing you, because the recent success of ANSWER's work makes bullshit out of your line as stated above, at least with respect to the current most important work on the Left, stopping the US drive to slaughter. And you are the sectarian right here right now in this specific struggle, because you are attacking one of the groups that is doing very good and successful and non-sectarian work.
^^^^^^^^ The charge of red-baiting is spurious. I have no problem with the presence of
communists, socialists, and radicals in the peace and anti-war movements. The
charge of red-baiting is more apropro of those liberal writers from the Nation who insinuate that *all* radicals in the movements should be marginalized. My beef is with ONE communist group, not all of them.
^^^^^ CB: This is the "some of my best friends are communists" defense ? Just because you are only criticizing one group doesn't make it not redbaiting. For one, the group you are criticizing is the Communist group doing the most important and significant work in the peace movement right now. The CPUSA is not doing what Workers World is doing. Secondly, the specific form of "I was stabbed in the back with a knife made in North Korea" is blatantly anti-communist redbaiting of the old type where the somebody would use "The Soviet Union" where you are using "North Korea" in some tacky attack. "Tool of Moscow", "Stalinist" all that jargon is redbaiting. Maybe you just don't know what redbaiting is.
^^^^^
People with the movements should have the right to criticize specific organizations without some bullshit suggestion that they are engaged in red-baiting.
CB: Don't dish it out if you can't take it. If you don't want to be criticized, then don't go around criticizing. Calling you a redbaiter is criticism of you. People have a right to make criticism of you without some phony complaint from you that you've been stabbed in the back by a knife from North Korea.
> CB: Your whole "WWP equals North Korea" is classic redbaiting and
> divisive of the organizing. The WWP's positions on North Korea are not
> pertinent to this anti-war effort.
Of course their position is germane. As self-appointed leaders of the US peace movement (sic), their position on North Korea is embarassing because North Korea is now part of the war equation.
CB: Talk about incoherent. What is this supposed to mean ? It's ok for the US to attack North Korea , AGAIN ON THE FIFTIETH ANNIVERSARY OF THE PREVIOUS US IMPERIALIST , COLONIALIST , VICIOUS WAR ? U.S out of Korea , hands off Iraq !
So, what are you engaged in instead of a movement ? A spasm ?
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