Moore: That's fair, we'll just stick to the issues
O'Reilly: The issues. alright good, now, one of the issues is you because you've been calling Bush a liar on weapons of mass destruction, the senate intelligence committee, Lord Butler's investigation in Britain, and now the 911 Commission have all come out and said there was no lying on the part of President Bush. Plus, Gladimir Putin has said his intelligence told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction. Wanna apologize to the president now or later?
M: He didn't tell the truth, he said there were weapons of mass destruction.
O: Yeah, but he didn't lie, he was misinformed by - all of those investigations come to the same conclusion, that's not a lie.
M: uh huh, so in other words if I told you right now that nothing was going on down here on the stage.
O: That would be a lie because we could see that wasn't the truth
M: Well, I'd have to turn around to see it, and then I would realize, oh, Bill, I just told you something that wasn't true. actually it's president Bush that needs to apologize to the nation for telling an entire country that there were weapons of mass destruction, that they had evidence of this, and that there was some sort of connection between Saddam Hussein and September 11th, and he used that as a -
O: Ok, He never said that, but back to the other thing, if you, if Michael Moore is president -
M: I thought you said you saw the movie, I show all that in the movie
O: Which may happen if Hollywood, yeah, OK, fine -
M: But that was your question -
O: Just the issues. You've got three separate investigations plus the president of Russia all saying. British intelligence, US intelligence, Russian intelligence, told the president there were weapons of mass destruction, you say, "he lied." This is not a lie if you believe it to be true, now he may have made a mistake, which is obvious -
M: Well, that's almost pathological - I mean, many criminals believe what they say is true, they could pass a lie detector test -
O: Alright, now you're dancing around a question -
M: No I'm not, there's no dancing
O: He didn't lie
M: He said something that wasn't true
O: Based upon bad information given to him by legitimate sources
M: Now you know that they went to the CIA, Cheney went to the CIA, they wanted that information, they wouldn't listen to anybody
O: They wouldn't go by Russian intelligence and Blair's intelligence too
M: His own people told him, I mean he went to Richard Clarke the day after September 11th and said "What you got on Iraq?" and Richard Clarke's going "Oh well this wasn't Iraq that did this sir, this was Al Qaeda."
O: You're diverting the issue.did you read Woodward's book?
M: No, I haven't read his book.
O: Woodward's a good reporter, right? Good guy, you know who he is right?
M: I know who he is.
O: Ok, he says in his book George Tenet looked the president in the eye, like how I am looking you in the eye right now and said "President, weapons of mass destruction are a quote, end quote, "slam dunk" if you're the president, you ignore all that?
M: Yeah, I would say that the CIA had done a pretty poor job.
O: I agree. The lieutenant was fired.
M: Yeah, but not before they took us to war based on his intelligence. This is a man who ran the CIA, a CIA that was so poorly organized and run that it wouldn't communicate with the FBI before September 11th and as a result in part we didn't have a very good intelligence system set up before September 11th
O: Nobody disputes that
M: Ok, so he screws up September 11th. Why would you then listen to him, he says this is a "slam dunk" and your going to go to war.
O: You've got MI-6 and Russian intelligence because they're all saying the same thing that's why. You're not going to apologize to Bush, you are going to continue to call him a liar.
M: Oh, he lied to the nation, Bill, I can't think of a worse thing to do for a president to lie to a country to take them to war, I mean, I don't know a worse -
O: It wasn't a lie
M: He did not tell the truth, what do you call that?
O: I call that bad information, acting on bad information - not a lie
M: A seven year old can get away with that -
O: Alright, your turn to ask me a question-
M: 'Mom and Dad it was just bad information'-
O: I'm not going to get you to admit it wasn't a lie, go ahead
M: It was a lie, and now, which leads us to my question
O: OK
M: Over 900 of our brave soldiers are dead. What do you say to their parents?
O: What do I say to their parents? I say what every patriotic American would say. We are proud of your sons and daughters. They answered the call that their country gave them. We respect them and we feel terrible that they were killed.
M: And, but what were they killed for?
O: They were removing a brutal dictator who himself killed hundreds of thousands of people
M: Um, but that was not the reason that was given to them to go to war, to remove a brutal dictator
O: Well we're back to the weapons of mass destruction
M: But that was the reason
O: The weapons of mass destruction
M: That we were told we were under some sort of imminent threat
O: That's right
M: And there was no threat, was there?
O: It was a mistake
M: Oh, just a mistake, and that's what you tell all the parents with a deceased child, "We're sorry." I don't think that is good enough.
O: I don't think its good enough either for those parents
M: So we agree on that
O: but that is the historical nature of what happened
M: Bill, if I made a mistake and I said something or did something as a result of my mistake but it resulted in the death of your child, how would you feel towards me?
O: It depends on whether the mistake was unintentional
M: No, not intentional, it was a mistake
O: Then if it was an unintentional mistake I cannot hold you morally responsible for that
M: Really, I'm driving down the road and I hit your child and your child is dead
O: If it were unintentional and you weren't impaired or anything like that
M: So that's all it is, if it was alcohol, even though it was a mistake - how would you feel towards me
O: Ok, now we are wandering
M: No, but my point is -
O: I saw what your point is and I answered your question
M: But why? What did they die for?
O: They died to remove a brutal dictator who had killed hundreds of thousands of people -
M: No, that was not the reason -
O: That's what they died for
M: -they were given -
O: The weapons of mass destruction was a mistake
M: Well there were 30 other brutal dictators in this world -
O: Alright, I've got anther question-
M: Would you sacrifice-just finish on this. Would you sacrifice your child to remove one of the other 30 brutal dictators on this planet?
O: Depends what the circumstances were.
M: You would sacrifice your child?
O: I would sacrifice myself-I'm not talking for any children-to remove the Taliban. Would you?
M: Uh huh.
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