And BTW, in order to talk about morality, you have to do more than make one complaint. You have to make morality the core of your campaign.
Kerry was apologetic, cryptic, and technocratic in everything he said.
-----Original Message----- From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org] On Behalf Of lweiger at umich.edu Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 6:32 AM To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] a vision...
Hey, Michael--if it were that simple, Kerry's line that he's tired of Republicans talking about family values without valuing families would've won him the election. It didn't.
-- luke
Quoting Michael Dawson <MDawson at pdx.edu>:
> Hey, Luke -- Listen to Robert Reich, who quite clearly and easily explains
> that what your DP technocratic asshole candidates concede to call "the
> economy" and "health care" are actually the ultimate moral issues.
There's
> an easy and obvious way to talk like this. It simply requires giving the
> middle finger to the DLC pricks who run this joke of a party.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of lweiger at umich.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:22 AM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] a vision...
>
> Yea. Treating cultural issues as though they're epiphenomenal is a huge
> error,
> but there's no easy solution. We'd of found it by now if there was one.
>
> Quoting Jon Johanning <jjohanning at igc.org>:
>
> > Well, all of this exit poll excitement on the list shows that leftists
> > can be as irrational as rightists.
> >
> > People who make a business of polling (like the Mystery Pollster) say
> > over and over that exit polls are not to be used as predictors of the
> > results, and it seems that the exit polls were especially unsuited for
> > that purpose this time -- if you took them as predictors, they were
> > wildly inaccurate in favor of Kerry.
> >
> > As of this writing, it seems practically impossible for Kerry to get
> > Ohio; therefore, Bush is re-elected.
> >
> > Everyone should look at Meteor Blade's reflections this morning on
> > DailyKos.com: "Don't mourn; organize!" It's time to take a hard, sober
> > look at where we are and what to do about it.
> >
> > One thing exit polls can do is suggest why people voted the way they
> > did. It seems, from the analyses the TV gurus are making this morning,
> > that the most important issue was "moral values," where Bush clearly
> > triumphed, followed by economic issues (Kerry won there), Iraq (again,
> > Kerry won or did very well, because there was a lot of dissatisfaction
> > and disquiet about the Iraq situation), and terrorism (not so important
> > as the other issues, apparently, but an issue Bush got a lot of mileage
> > out of).
> >
> > It seems clear that the Left (both inside and outside the DP) will be
> > out of commission for quite a few years until it can figure out how to
> > neutralize the "values" issues (conservative religion, homophobia
> > (reduced but still active), "pro-life," etc.). There seems to be a very
> > large and (for now) immobile part of the country that resents secular
> > people, "latte drinkers," "liberals," etc. These folks yearn for
> > emotional security and will pay any price they need to to ignore
> > reality -- they have dug in their heels in support of a world-view that
> > we leftists consider delusional. We need to understand this fact and
> > figure out how to deal with it, or we will be outside in the political
> > cold for a very long time.
> >
> >
> > Jon Johanning // jjohanning at igc.org
> > __________________________________________________
> > It isn't that we believe in God, or don't believe in God, or have
> > suspended judgment about God, or consider that the God of theism is an
> > inadequate symbol of our ultimate concern; it is just that we wish we
> > didn't have to have a view about God. It isn't that we know that "God"
> > is a cognitively meaningless expression, or that it has its role in a
> > language-game other than fact-stating, or whatever. We just regret the
> > fact that the word is used so much.
> > - Richard Rorty
> >
> > ___________________________________
> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
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