The Khmer Rouge attained power due to the mind-boggling U.S. bombing of Cambodia, so that's hardly a good example. And there's a huge difference between the United Nations dealing with things like the KR (would there ever be a KR without the precipitating atrocities?) and any nation-state doing it. Nation-states should be moving away from war. Simple point.
You said pre-emptive war by a nation-state is "inexcusable when pointless." When, then, is it excusable? When does it have a point that justifies the action and the precedent?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of Luke Weiger
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 3:21 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] more on Fallujah
>
> Afraid I don't know what you're question is. I just gave you an example
> of
> a hypothetical insurgency in potential need of quashing. I admit my worry
> would be more pressing if I could easily think of an actual world case.
>
> Though I consider this to be a tangent, I think it's ludicrous to suggest
> that nations necessarily lack a casus belli for war in the absence of
> direct
> provocation. I would've been fine if the Vietnamese communists had taken
> out the Khmer Rouge, even if there hadn't been a border dispute between
> the
> countries.
>
> -- Luke
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Dawson" <MDawson at pdx.edu>
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 6:08 PM
> Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] more on Fallujah
>
>
> > But that's after Nazi Germany declared war on the U.S. Answer the
> question.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org
> [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Luke Weiger
> > > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 2:56 PM
> > > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > > Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] more on Fallujah
> > >
> > > I don't think it's particularly hard to imagine circumstances in which
> a
> > > relatively benevolent occupying power would have to deal with the
> problem
> > > of
> > > insurgency. Suppose that the Germans had internalized Nazi norms to
> such
> > > a
> > > degree that they were willing to fight for fascism even after the
> state
> > > had
> > > collapsed.
> > >
> > > -- Luke
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Dawson" <MDawson at pdx.edu>
> > > To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 5:26 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [lbo-talk] more on Fallujah
> > >
> > >
> > > > Jesus Christ, Luke. It's against the law to invade another country,
> > > unless
> > > > it invades you first. Good Socialist State X would never start a
> war.
> > > > Pretty simple.
> > > >
> > > > What are you even thinking of? What "insurgency" has ever existed
> that
> > > > "needed to be defeated" via war? Let's hear your list.
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org
> > > [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> > > > > On Behalf Of Luke Weiger
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 2:23 PM
> > > > > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] more on Fallujah
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's suppose your the leader of Good Socialist State X and
> determine
> > > that
> > > > > an insurgency in some country (let's assume it's like Iraq in most
> > > every
> > > > > particular) needs to be defeated. What measures would you employ?
> > > War's
> > > > > awful. It's inexcusable when pointless, which appears to be the
> case
> > > in
> > > > > Iraq. That's the real problem.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Luke
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Doug Henwood" <dhenwood at panix.com>
> > > > > To: "lbo-talk" <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 2:48 PM
> > > > > Subject: [lbo-talk] more on Fallujah
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > A friend just sent a report from a friend who's just been in
> > > > > > Fallujah. Horrible stuff. Aside from the usual killing, the
> Marines
> > > > > > made a point of wrecking every house they searched, blowing
> holes
> in
> > > > > > every bare wall they could find, and leaving bloody footprints
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > floor of a mosque (where shoes aren't allowed) and shitting
> there.
> > > > > > It's not enough to kill people in great quantities, they want to
> > > > > > humiliate the survivors too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Doug
> > > > > > ___________________________________
> > > > > > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ___________________________________
> > > > > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> > > >
> > > > ___________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ___________________________________
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> >
> > ___________________________________
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> >
> >
>
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