--- Mycos <mycos at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
>
> There was a warning that perhaps what is being said
> here could be
> used as evidence in a court case involving the
> posters drug use.
>
> If you were a lawyer, wouldn't you introduce the
> themes below into
> evidence, in an effort to confuse the living hell
> out of the case,
> something which, if they crown wants to use any part
> of the thread
> (conversation) as evidence, would be IMO,
> permissible?
>
> Gary
>
>
> >> Hehehe.... Let the DEA try to put together a
> specific case with these
> >> last couple of posts in the evidenciary
> transcripts <g>
> >>
> >> G
> >>
> >> Chris Doss wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> This seems to be strong support for the old
> theory
> >>> (popularized
> >>> by Koestler in "The Thirteenth Tribe") that the
> East
> >>> European
> >>> jewry, whose language came to be known as
> Yiddish, originally was
> >>> largely
> >>> composed of Khazarian Jewish refugees from the
> Mongol
> >>> invasions.
> >>>
> >>> Shane Mage
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>>
> >>> FWIW this is what Solzhenitsyn writes on pp.
> 13-15 of
> >>> 200 Let Vmeste (200 Years Together), Russian
> edition,
> >>> quick translation by me. I have transliterated
> some
> >>> place names and names of peoples and they may
> not be
> >>> correct. I have left out all the footnotes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The first Russian-Jewish intersection may be
> >>> considered the wars of Kievan Rus with the
> Khazars -
> >>> but this is not completely correct, for the
> Khazars
> >>> had only leadership from Jewish tribes, and were
> >>> themselves Turks who had converted to Judaism.
> >>>
> >>> If we believe the account of the respected
> >>> mid-20th-century Jewish author Yu.D. Brutskus,
> some
> >>> Jews resettled from Persia into the Lower Volga
> >>> through Derbensk, where after 724 AD Itil arose
> - the
> >>> capital of the Khazar Kaganat. The tribal
> leaders of
> >>> the turko-khazars (still pagans at the time),
> neither
> >>> wished to become Muslim, in order not to submit
> to the
> >>> Baghdad Caliphate, nor Christian, in order to
> avoid
> >>> the tutelage of the Byzantine Empire. Therefore
> around
> >>> 732 the tribe accepted the Jewish religion.
> >>>
> >>> There was also a Jewish colony in the Bosporsk
> Kingdom
> >>> (Crimea, the Tamansk peninsula), to which
> Emperor
> >>> Adrian had settled Jewish captives in 137 after
> the
> >>> suppression of Bar-Kakhba. As a result, the
> Jewish
> >>> population in Crimea preserved itself under the
> Goths
> >>> and under the Huns, and especially Kafa (Kerch)
> >>> remained Jewish. In 933 Prince Igor took Kerch
> for a
> >>> time, and Svyatislav Igorevich conquered the Don
> >>> Valley from the Khazars. In 969 the Rus already
> ruled
> >>> all the Volga region from Itil, and Russian
> ships
> >>> appeared by Semender (the Derbensk coast). The
> >>> remainders of the Khazars are the Kumyks in the
> >>> Caucasus, and in Crimea they, together with the
> >>> Polovians, became the Crimean Tatars. (The
> Karaites
> >>> and Jewish Krimchaks, on the other hand, did not
> >>> convert to Mohammedism.)
> >>>
> >>> On the other hand, a series of researchers
> believe
> >>> (without strict proof) that a certain number of
> Jews
> >>> resettled in eastern and northwestern
> directions,
> >>> passing through Russian territory. For instance,
> the
> >>> Westernizer and semitologist Avrakham Garkavi
> writes
> >>> that the Jewish community in what was to become
> Russia
> >>> "was formed by Jews who had resettled from the
> banks
> >>> of the Black Sea and the Caucasus, where their
> >>> ancestors had lived after the Assyrian and
> Babylonian
> >>> captivity." Yu.D. Brutskus has a similar view.
> (There
> >>> exists an opinion that they were the descendents
> of
> >>> the "lost" tenth tribe of Israel.) Such
> migration may
> >>> have ended as late as after the fall of
> Tmutarakan
> >>> (1097) from the Polovians. In the opinion of
> Garkavi,
> >>> the spoken language of these Jews was Slavic,
> and only
> >>> in the 17th century, when Ukrainian Jews fled
> from the
> >>> pogroms of Chmelnitsky into Poland, did their
> language
> >>> become Yiddish, which Jews in Poland spoke.
> >>>
> >>> Jews came to Kiev through different routes and
> settled
> >>> there. Already during the reign of Igor the
> southern
> >>> part of the city was called "the Kozars." In 933
> Igor
> >>> added Jewish captives from Kerch. Then Jewish
> tribes
> >>> arrived in 965 from Crimea, in 969 "kozars" from
> Itil
> >>> and Semender, in 989 from Korsun (Khersones),
> and in
> >>> 1017 from Tmutarakan. Western Jews also appeared
> in
> >>> Kiev in connection with the West-East caravan
> merchant
> >>> trade, and, possibly, from the end of the ninth
> >>> century, persecution in Europe during the First
> >>> Crusade.
> >>>
> >>> These and later researchers confirm the Khazar
> "Jewish
> >>> element" in Kiev in the 11th century. Even
> earlier: at
> >>> the border of the 9th and 10th centuries the
> presence
> >>> of a "Khazar administration and Khazar garrison"
> is
> >>> remarked in Kiev. And as early as "the first
> half of
> >>> the 9th century the Jewish and Khazar element in
> KievŠ
> >>> played a significant role." The Kiev of the
> 9th-10th
> >>> centuries was multinational and ethnically
> tolerant.
> >>>
> >>> In this way, and the end of the 10th century,
> when
> >>> Vladimir was choosing a new faith for the Rus,
> there
> >>> was no lack of Jews in Kiev, including scholars
> who
> >>> suggested Judaism. But the choice went otherwise
> than
> >>> it had in Khazaria 250 years earlier. Karamazin
> >>> relates it thus: "Having listened to the Jews,
> >>> [Vladimir] asked: 'where is your fatherland?'
> 'In
> >>> Jerusalem,' answered the missionaries, 'but God
> in His
> >>> anger has scattered us through alien lands.'
> 'And you,
> >>> having been punished by God, dare to instruct
> others?'
> >>> Vladimir said. 'We do not wish to lose our
> fatherland
> >>> like you have.'" After the conversion of Rus to
> >>> Christianity, Brutskus adds, some of the Kozar
> Jews of
> >>> Kiev converted as well, and even -- perhaps one
> of
> >>> them? - one of the first Christian bishops and
> >>> spiritual writers in Rus, Luka Zhidyata.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Nu, zayats, pogodi!
>
> --
>
> Gary Williams
>
> "Over himself, over his own body and mind, the
> individual is sovereign." - John Stuart Mill
>
> http://mycos.blogspot.com/
>
> Todays Iraq Body Count
> Min Max
> 22787 25814
>
>
>
> --
>
> Gary Williams
>
> "Over himself, over his own body and mind, the
> individual is sovereign." - John Stuart Mill
>
> http://mycos.blogspot.com/
>
> Todays Iraq Body Count
> Min Max
> 22787 25814
>
>
> ___________________________________
>
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>
Nu, zayats, pogodi!
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