Yours was, in truth, interesting reading however.
Gary
Chris Doss wrote:
> And here I thought it was a commentary on my
> translation skills. ;)
>
> --- Mycos <mycos at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>There was a warning that perhaps what is being said
>>here could be
>>used as evidence in a court case involving the
>>posters drug use.
>>
>>If you were a lawyer, wouldn't you introduce the
>>themes below into
>>evidence, in an effort to confuse the living hell
>>out of the case,
>>something which, if they crown wants to use any part
>>of the thread
>>(conversation) as evidence, would be IMO,
>>permissible?
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Hehehe.... Let the DEA try to put together a
>>
>>specific case with these
>>
>>>>last couple of posts in the evidenciary
>>
>>transcripts <g>
>>
>>>>G
>>>>
>>>>Chris Doss wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>This seems to be strong support for the old
>>
>>theory
>>
>>>>>(popularized
>>>>>by Koestler in "The Thirteenth Tribe") that the
>>
>>East
>>
>>>>>European
>>>>>jewry, whose language came to be known as
>>
>>Yiddish, originally was
>>
>>>>>largely
>>>>>composed of Khazarian Jewish refugees from the
>>
>>Mongol
>>
>>>>>invasions.
>>>>>
>>>>>Shane Mage
>>>>>
>>>>>---
>>>>>
>>>>>FWIW this is what Solzhenitsyn writes on pp.
>>
>>13-15 of
>>
>>>>>200 Let Vmeste (200 Years Together), Russian
>>
>>edition,
>>
>>>>>quick translation by me. I have transliterated
>>
>>some
>>
>>>>>place names and names of peoples and they may
>>
>>not be
>>
>>>>>correct. I have left out all the footnotes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The first Russian-Jewish intersection may be
>>>>>considered the wars of Kievan Rus with the
>>
>>Khazars -
>>
>>>>>but this is not completely correct, for the
>>
>>Khazars
>>
>>>>>had only leadership from Jewish tribes, and were
>>>>>themselves Turks who had converted to Judaism.
>>>>>
>>>>>If we believe the account of the respected
>>>>>mid-20th-century Jewish author Yu.D. Brutskus,
>>
>>some
>>
>>>>>Jews resettled from Persia into the Lower Volga
>>>>>through Derbensk, where after 724 AD Itil arose
>>
>>- the
>>
>>>>>capital of the Khazar Kaganat. The tribal
>>
>>leaders of
>>
>>>>>the turko-khazars (still pagans at the time),
>>
>>neither
>>
>>>>>wished to become Muslim, in order not to submit
>>
>>to the
>>
>>>>>Baghdad Caliphate, nor Christian, in order to
>>
>>avoid
>>
>>>>>the tutelage of the Byzantine Empire. Therefore
>>
>>around
>>
>>>>>732 the tribe accepted the Jewish religion.
>>>>>
>>>>>There was also a Jewish colony in the Bosporsk
>>
>>Kingdom
>>
>>>>>(Crimea, the Tamansk peninsula), to which
>>
>>Emperor
>>
>>>>>Adrian had settled Jewish captives in 137 after
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>>suppression of Bar-Kakhba. As a result, the
>>
>>Jewish
>>
>>>>>population in Crimea preserved itself under the
>>
>>Goths
>>
>>>>>and under the Huns, and especially Kafa (Kerch)
>>>>>remained Jewish. In 933 Prince Igor took Kerch
>>
>>for a
>>
>>>>>time, and Svyatislav Igorevich conquered the Don
>>>>>Valley from the Khazars. In 969 the Rus already
>>
>>ruled
>>
>>>>>all the Volga region from Itil, and Russian
>>
>>ships
>>
>>>>>appeared by Semender (the Derbensk coast). The
>>>>>remainders of the Khazars are the Kumyks in the
>>>>>Caucasus, and in Crimea they, together with the
>>>>>Polovians, became the Crimean Tatars. (The
>>
>>Karaites
>>
>>>>>and Jewish Krimchaks, on the other hand, did not
>>>>>convert to Mohammedism.)
>>>>>
>>>>>On the other hand, a series of researchers
>>
>>believe
>>
>>>>>(without strict proof) that a certain number of
>>
>>Jews
>>
>>>>>resettled in eastern and northwestern
>>
>>directions,
>>
>>>>>passing through Russian territory. For instance,
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>>Westernizer and semitologist Avrakham Garkavi
>>
>>writes
>>
>>>>>that the Jewish community in what was to become
>>
>>Russia
>>
>>>>>"was formed by Jews who had resettled from the
>>
>>banks
>>
>>>>>of the Black Sea and the Caucasus, where their
>>>>>ancestors had lived after the Assyrian and
>>
>>Babylonian
>>
>>>>>captivity." Yu.D. Brutskus has a similar view.
>>
>>(There
>>
>>>>>exists an opinion that they were the descendents
>>
>>of
>>
>>>>>the "lost" tenth tribe of Israel.) Such
>>
>>migration may
>>
>>>>>have ended as late as after the fall of
>>
>>Tmutarakan
>>
>>>>>(1097) from the Polovians. In the opinion of
>>
>>Garkavi,
>>
>>>>>the spoken language of these Jews was Slavic,
>>
>>and only
>>
>>>>>in the 17th century, when Ukrainian Jews fled
>>
>>from the
>>
>>>>>pogroms of Chmelnitsky into Poland, did their
>>
>>language
>>
>>>>>become Yiddish, which Jews in Poland spoke.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jews came to Kiev through different routes and
>>
>>settled
>>
>>>>>there. Already during the reign of Igor the
>>
>>southern
>>
>>>>>part of the city was called "the Kozars." In 933
>>
>>Igor
>>
>>>>>added Jewish captives from Kerch. Then Jewish
>>
>>tribes
>>
>>>>>arrived in 965 from Crimea, in 969 "kozars" from
>>
>>Itil
>>
>>>>>and Semender, in 989 from Korsun (Khersones),
>>
>>and in
>>
>>>>>1017 from Tmutarakan. Western Jews also appeared
>>
>>in
>>
>>>>>Kiev in connection with the West-East caravan
>>
>>merchant
>>
>>>>>trade, and, possibly, from the end of the ninth
>>>>>century, persecution in Europe during the First
>>>>>Crusade.
>>>>>
>>>>>These and later researchers confirm the Khazar
>>
>>"Jewish
>>
>>>>>element" in Kiev in the 11th century. Even
>>
>>earlier: at
>>
>>>>>the border of the 9th and 10th centuries the
>>
>>presence
>>
>>>>>of a "Khazar administration and Khazar garrison"
>>
>>is
>>
>>>>>remarked in Kiev. And as early as "the first
>>
>>half of
>>
>>>>>the 9th century the Jewish and Khazar element in
>>
>>KievŠ
>>
>>>>>played a significant role." The Kiev of the
>>
>>9th-10th
>>
>>>>>centuries was multinational and ethnically
>>
>>tolerant.
>>
>>>>>In this way, and the end of the 10th century,
>>
>>when
>>
>>>>>Vladimir was choosing a new faith for the Rus,
>>
>>there
>>
>>>>>was no lack of Jews in Kiev, including scholars
>>
>>who
>>
>>>>>suggested Judaism. But the choice went otherwise
>>
>>than
>>
>>>>>it had in Khazaria 250 years earlier. Karamazin
>>>>>relates it thus: "Having listened to the Jews,
>>>>>[Vladimir] asked: 'where is your fatherland?'
>>
>>'In
>>
>>>>>Jerusalem,' answered the missionaries, 'but God
>>
>>in His
>>
>>>>>anger has scattered us through alien lands.'
>>
>>'And you,
>>
>>>>>having been punished by God, dare to instruct
>>
>>others?'
>>
>>>>>Vladimir said. 'We do not wish to lose our
>>
>>fatherland
>>
>>>>>like you have.'" After the conversion of Rus to
>>>>>Christianity, Brutskus adds, some of the Kozar
>>
>>Jews of
>>
>>>>>Kiev converted as well, and even -- perhaps one
>>
>>of
>>
>>>>>them? - one of the first Christian bishops and
>>>>>spiritual writers in Rus, Luka Zhidyata.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Nu, zayats, pogodi!
>>
>>--
>>
>>Gary Williams
>>
>>"Over himself, over his own body and mind, the
>>individual is sovereign." - John Stuart Mill
>>
>>http://mycos.blogspot.com/
>>
>>Todays Iraq Body Count
>> Min Max
>> 22787 25814
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Gary Williams
>>
>>"Over himself, over his own body and mind, the
>>individual is sovereign." - John Stuart Mill
>>
>>http://mycos.blogspot.com/
>>
>>Todays Iraq Body Count
>> Min Max
>> 22787 25814
>>
>>
>>___________________________________
>>
>
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
> Nu, zayats, pogodi!
>
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>
--
Gary Williams
"Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign." - John Stuart Mill
Todays Iraq Body Count
Min Max
22787 25814