I advocated from the start an immediate withdrawl, I then said that I thought that strategically and morally it was wrong to place any more guilt on the shoulders of grunts then on any other member of US society. I further argued that inorder to get grunts to take responsibility it might be easier if the rest of the society to which they belong took their own responsibility for the war rather then somehow seeing themselves as insulated and apart from it when attempting to engage with would be enlistees or re-enlistees on the question of the war.
My respose to Doug was a tongue in cheek response to the question: "how far do you think collective responsibility (on the part of US citizens) extends? As for the rest of your post go fuck yourself you intellectual light weight. Try reading all the posts in the thread before climbing on that high horse. I should sue you for libel given that you have inverted everything I wrote. Hitchens indeed. I expect an apology.
Travis
andie nachgeborenen wrote:
>Which, as far as I can tell from your posts, means for
>you condescendingly morally condemning grunts who are
>sent into combat and largely do what they're told. I
>am sure they will appreciate your superior concern,
>from yuour position of purity, for their moral
>benightedness, and I wish you luck in preaching the
>gospel. Doug and I will refuse to condemn them even if
>they don't refuse to serve or start fragging their
>officers. In your mind this seem to put advocates of
>immediate and unconditional withdrawl, like us, in the
>same league as Hitchens. As liberal democrat, I take
>umbrage at that (don't worry, kells, I'll put it
>bnack); I'm not a neocon. Doig can take his own
>umbrage. I suppose you think of youreself as some sort
>of Marxist. Youa re in error. You are in fact
>precisely the kind of high-horse moralist Marx
>despised. Saving souls indeed. Marxism would have you
>ask not, what us thew idaelly morally perfect psition
>to take, but, what attitude and actions will be most
>effective in opposing imperialism? A liberal democrat
>like me is a better Marxist tahn you here.
>
>--- Travis Fast <tfast at yorku.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Are you now pulling a hitchens? But to answer you
>>directly: to the max
>>that is how far it goes. And if the left took this
>>seriously they would
>>would descend from the heavens and touch their own
>>humanity and in so
>>doing discover the humanity of those they wish to
>>save. I say unto you
>>brother repent and see the men and women before you.
>>
>>Travis
>>
>>Doug Henwood wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Travis Fast wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The point is Yoshie, you can either take the
>>>>
>>>>
>>approach that the
>>
>>
>>>>average soldier is no more and no less
>>>>
>>>>
>>responsible then the average
>>
>>
>>>>AMerican for the war
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Lots of average Americans voted against Bush. Most
>>>
>>>
>>average soldiers
>>
>>
>>>have followed, or would follow, orders to go to
>>>
>>>
>>war. How far does
>>
>>
>>>collective responsbility extend?
>>>
>>>Doug
>>>___________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>>___________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>___________________________________
>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
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