----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Doss" <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] What is you know what ?
>I agree on all points, except that Fascist nationalism
> is not necessarily race-based. Race was not central to
> Italian (and Spanish, I think) fascism. It is a Nazi
> trope.
>
> --- Marvin Gandall <marvgandall at videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> My two cents:
>>
>> 1. A bourgeois democratic government is
>> characterized by a number of
>> institutions not directly controlled by the state -
>> an independent press,
>> independent trade unions, independent judiciary,
>> independent political
>> parties, etc. These institutions may be vigorous or
>> docile, but they do not
>> directly take their orders from officials of the
>> ruling party.
>>
>> 2. A repressive regime lacks all of the above. There
>> are no unions, no
>> media, no judges, no political parties which are
>> independent of the state.
>> In this sense, the PRC is still a repressive regime,
>> but one which is
>> loosening its controls, or "liberalizing". It
>> illustrates that there can be
>> differences in the degree of control as between
>> repressive states and over
>> the life of each state, often depending on how
>> beleaguered by internal or
>> external forces the regime feels itself to be.
>> Right-wing regimes often
>> arise out of military coups backed by the
>> bourgeoisie against an insurgent
>> mass movement from below. Repressive left-wing
>> regimes were the product of
>> social revolutions which expropriated the
>> bourgeoisie.
>>
>> 3. Fascism is a particular kind of right-wing
>> repressive state. It's
>> defining characteristics seem to me to be a very
>> fervent race-based
>> nationalism which makes it susceptible to genocidal
>> impulses; an
>> expansionist foreign policy; a readiness equal to
>> the left to organize and
>> mobilize the masses in support of its objectives;
>> and a more tightly
>> controlled bourgeoisie than in the case of (2)
>> above..
>>
>> Obviously, there are hybrid states which combine
>> elements of the above.
>> Israel has characteristics common to (3), but so
>> long as it has institutions
>> which operate independently of the state, it can't
>> be called ""fascist", if
>> the term is to mean anything more more than an
>> epithet. Iran is another
>> complex state, which defies easy characterization.
>>
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Doss" <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com>
>> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 7:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] What is you know what ?
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > There
>> >> have been many
>> >> non-fascist states that were a lot worse live in
>> >> than Mussolini's Italy.
>> >
>> > Yep. On the Evil Dictatorships scale, Mussolini's
>> > Italy was actually on the low end. Maybe
>> comparable to
>> > contemporary Egypt. Much less repressive than,
>> say,
>> > modern China. (I am not anti-China, just to make
>> that clear.)
>> >
>> > Nu, zayats, pogodi!
>> >
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>
> Nu, zayats, pogodi!
>
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