MG: >> The Islamists are fighting to free their homeland of
>> foreign occupation or
>> the threat of same,
>
> But neo-Nazis in Germany will tell you they are doing
> the exact same thing.
>
> Germany is no longer subject to allied occupation, but
> there are still American military bases throughout the
> country. And the Nazis view the postwar Federal
> Republic as an illegitimate state forced upon the
> German people by the allied occupiers, much as many
> Arabs and Muslims view Israel as an artifical,
> illegitimate creation of the United Nations forced
> upon the indigenous population.
==========================
Such is the abstract claim. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. There
is no resemblance between Berlin and Baghdad, Ramallah or Beirut, where the
weight of the US and Israeli military and the related scale of human
suffering is immense. If the German neo-Nazis want to put their (your?)
thesis of an equivalent occupation to the test, they should call on Germans
to initiate an armed struggle against their American "occupiers", and see
with what result. That there are those who argue that the earth is flat or
that aliens landed in Roswell or that the Judeocide never occured does not
require that we treat these claims with any degree of seriousness.
MG: > , which I support. The objective
>> of European fascists is
>> to ensure the subjegation of coloured citizens and
>> immigrants in their
>> countries in the name of white Christian
>> civilization, which I oppose.
>
AN: > Germany does not have any sort of indigenous
> minorities, other than the Sorbs and Wendts,
> indigenous slavic groups concentrated primarily in
> parts of Brandenburg and Saxony.
>
> Any other racial or ethnic minority are immigrant
> groups. Turks in Berlin, Hamburg, and other major
> West German cities, but also Italians and people from
> the former Yugoslavia, all of which were brought in as
> "Gastarbeiter" (guest workers) during the
> Wirtschaftswunder. From the former East Germany,
> there are only pockets of Vietnamese, in the larger
> urban areas like eastern Berlin, Leipzig, Chemnitz,
> Dresden, but the majority had their residence status
> stripped after the reunification.
>
> Nazis can arguably make the same arguments against
> these groups that many make about the presence of Jews
> in Palestine, that they are outsiders, an artificial
> imposition, etc.
============================
Israel's origins are as a colonial settler-state which wrestled control of
its territory by expelling a large part of the indigenous Arab population
and discriminating against the rest. In this context, historical Arab
hostility and resistance to Israel is justified. The Turks, Italians,
Vietnamese, etc. have not sought on arrival to expel or subjegate the
German-speaking population, only to live in equality with them in the same
state. In this context, German hostility to immigrants or guest workers is
not justified, anymore than native hostility to immigration anywhere is
justifiable from the standpoint of those who consider themselves on the
left.
That having been said, a Hebrew-speaking nation has formed in Palestine, and has the right to live in a binational state where its language, religious, and cultural rights are protected. In fact, the Palestinian majority has accepted to coexist short of this with an exclusionist "Jewish state" which rejects the principle of binationality. Whatever resentments are still entertained privately, the reality is that the Palestinians and the neighbouring Arab states have collectively come to terms with the permanent existence of the state of Israel and no longer behave politically on the basis that it is an "artificial creation" whose status is reversible. I would say this also holds true for the political leaderships of Hamas and Hezbollah, though they have not yet moved from de facto to de jure acceptance of the Israeli state.