[lbo-talk] Fwd: Notes from the Siege 9&10

joanna 123hop at comcast.net
Thu Jul 27 09:34:54 PDT 2006


Actually, they sued for a nation but coveted a ghetto from which they could administer the Arab world. They had no larger vision than to serve the imperial overlord of the moment (Turk, British, American) and to reproduce, as a "nation", the function of the Polish tax/corvee collectors some of them once were.

Joanna

Marvin Gandall wrote:


> Actually, the error was mine, not Joanna's. I've also believed for
> some time
> that the Yiddish-speaking Jews in Eastern Europe constituted a nation, a
> part of which reconstituted itself as a Hebrew-speaking nation in Israel.
> Diaspora Jews do not share a common language, culture, territory, etc.,
> although the Holocaust is still a fresh historical memory for them and
> the
> trauma it has engendered is the foremost reason for their support of
> Israel
> as an ultimate refuge. Hence, their self-identification a "nation" in
> exile,
> although the great majority are unwilling to "return" to Israel,
> primarily
> because its language and culture is not their own.
>
> Zeev was Jabotinsky's Hebrew name, Vladimir his Russian. I think he is
> mostly known by the former now.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> --- joanna <123hop at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> > From this persepective, I think the
>>> > Zionists, who have subtly tried to transform
>>> Judaism from a religion
>>> > to an
>>> > "ethnicity", are closer to the racist ideology of
>>> the European
>>> > fascists. The
>>> > followers of Zeev Jabotinsky - the ideological
>>> forebears of the Israeli
>>> > right - were quite explicit about this connection.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> They didn't have to transform anything. At the time
>> the European Zionists were living (I think you mean
>> Vladimir Jabotinsky, right?), and still today in large
>> areas of Europe, Jews were/are considered an
>> ethnicity. Until the Holocaust, unassimilated Jews
>> lived in their own separate areas or villages, spoke a
>> different language, and had a very different culture
>> from the peoples around them. They were a nation.
>>
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