To see such unbridled ignorance and bigotry from supposedly progressive and learned people about what BDSM actually entails sickens me to no end. And I'm strictly a vanilla het male....though I know several people who are into kink and still manage to engage themselves in the real world outside their sex play.
Most of what follows is a response to Charles Brown, who seems to be leading (with Yoshie Furuhashi) the Leftist Sexual Purity Caucus here.
To quote:
[Quote from CB] [...] BUT, given the big problem of domestic violence against women ( and rape), I'm not sure that it's such a great idea to publically broadcast endorsements of these cults. I guess I would add now, I'm not so concerned what nice BDSMers do in private, but, publically celebrating it might not be such a good message to send out into a society that already has a lot of men who some how arrive at the mentality of domestic batterers and rapists. My thought being it might aggravate the problem.
In the course of this thread, the pro-BDSMers find it necessary to insult me or anybody who doesn't unhesitatingly endorse and "approve" of them as ,oh, how shall I say it, "putting their foot in their mouths", mentally unable to grasp the sharp and absolute difference between a BDSM sadist and domestic battering/rapist sadists. [...] [/CB]
Well, Mr. Brown, in this case the insult is not only deserved, but actually understated. In my view, anyone who reduces the diverse activities of BDSM, which includes everything from female domination to consensual spanking to sensory play short of all out pain, to a "cult", and even implies that such is the equivalent to rape (if not the outright cause of rape itself), deserves nothing less.
Contrary to your nice Maquis de Sade fantasy of BDSM zombies living by day getting flogged in dark dungeons by dasterdly men in goth gear; most practicioners of kink actually do live normal lives outside of their sex play. And some even happen to have leftist sensibilities, too. Now, I do not deny that there aren't extreme cases that merit the stereotype, but who the hell are you to pass such a judgement on them who do no harm to others??
[CB] Basically, as far as the burden of proof, I'd say , no , it's on you. Because the whole thing starts out with BDSMers wanting non-BDSMers to accept them or not think badly of them. So, if that's what you want, then the burden of proof is on you to establish the sharp distinction or show that publically broadcasting it does _not_ feed into the epidemic of violent male chauvinism. And it is because there _is_ an obvious similarity between the two, _at least_ on the surface. And your adament denials that there isn't any similarity at all, is you "protesting too much". Because any honest person would admit that there is at least a prima facie similarity. You would do better to say , "yes, you are right that there is a prima facie similarity, but here's why they are absolutely different." Instead, you insult my intelligence , and try to make out that I'm dumb because I can't grasp that they are so sharply different. All that does it motivate me to think of ways in which they aren't so clearly and sharply different. And really I don't give a good goddamn what you do, but since _you_ brought it up and are so agitated that some radicals don't readily endorse it and give you their blessings, the burden of proof is on you,like I said. [/CB]
Gee...for someone who "doesn't give a good goddamn", Mr. Brown, you sure spread a lot of hate and presumptions. Of course, for an ideologue spreading disinformation about a particular group that he wants to liquidate from his movement, "the burden of proof" for defending their right to exist will always fall upon them....never upon the one making the slanderous charges to begin with.
Oh, and a "simularity between BDSM sex and rape"?? Gee, sorta like the "simularity" between women's orgasms (faked or real) in porn and the screams of rape victims??? Other than the fact of the difference between informed consent and involuntary coerced force, I guess I really can't see why you are wrong.
[CB] Again, it is obvious and common sense that BDSM is a little bit weird, "weird" being defined as what most people think is weird. Instead of admitting that ,and making a respectful argument as to why it's shouldn't be considered weird, you take the path of trying to make out that BDSM is just obviously wonderful and some kind of more advanced sexuality than "vanilla sex". And anybody who doesn't agree with you is slow. You try to show , basically, how your BDSM makes you some kind of elite and advanced sexualites and intellectuals. [/CB]
Yes, BDSM is more than a bit "weird", Mr. Brown....why do you think it is called "kinky sex" in the first place??
And if you don't mind, please cite any example of one practioner or "advocate" of BDSM ever saying that such is a "superior" or "more advanced" form of sex than traditional "vanilla" het/gay sex....or where anyone even remotely advances the view that BDSM makes for a more "advanced" or "elite" intellectual. (Well....other than the obvious fact that accepting your own special kink allows you to be more open and accepting and empathetic about the sexuality of others.)
Bottom line, Mr. Brown: BDSM sex may not be your particular cup of tea, and it certainly isn't for everyone; but to single practioners out for exclusive censure and villification because it doesn't meet your own particular "leftist" standards of sexual propriety, not to mention throw all the old libels, myths and saws about de Sade "dungeons" and mass rapes, is simply bassackwards, repulsive, and totally wrong for someone supposedly for human liberation. To see such nonsense on a leftist list tells me that the Right has no patent on sexual ignorance.
Anthony