So, you come down on the "revealed consent" side of what my old teacher Don Herzog calls the problem of happy slaves. If the oppressed are cool with their subordination, all is OK, God's in his heaven, all's right with the world. Tolstoi deals with this issue in Resurrection, in which the idealistic young landowner tries to give his estate to a hostile and reluctant peasantry who just want to go on serving a strong, harsh master like it always did before.
I admit that there are deep philosophical problems here that have no easy answer. But among the no easy answers are, "they consent, that settles it." Workers are consent in the west -- very aggressively -- to capitalist domination. Does that settle the question of socialism? (negatively?)
I confess I find your attachment to Russian authoritarianism disconcerting -- it's less alarming than Yoshie's endorsement of reactionary theocracy in Iran, but neither strike me as socialist attitudes.
--- Chris Doss <lookoverhere1 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Oh yeah, one other point I meant to make:
> --- James Heartfield <Heartfield at blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > "As socialists we are not supposed to like a
> > politically authoritarian,
> > kleptocratic, wildly inegalitarian capitalist
> system
> > that substitutes
> > arbitrary force force for reliable rule of law and
> > accords working people
> > some goodies but no power."
> >
> > Well, ok, but let's not the wish be father to the
> > thought. If this
> > dictatorial government is growing the economy it
> > seems silly to criticise it
> > for not doing so when what you actually want to do
> > is criticise it for
> > oppressing the people.
> >
>
> See, you might have a problem here. Russians do not
> feel oppressed by the federal government. They feel
> oppressed by the stuff they actually encounter in
> their lives, which is corrupt police, courts, and
> regional governments and crime (the latter often
> linked to the former). A point I have made again and
> again, but which has apparently not sunk in, is that
> Russians, especially in the provinces, suffer from
> the
> WEAKNESS of the federal center, not its overweaning
> strength. Accordingly, they favor its being
> strengthened and the regional powers being weakened,
> which is why most people supported the abolition of
> direct elections of governors. Why? BECAUSE THERE
> WERE
> NO ACTUAL ELECTIONS OF GOVERNORS. The President of
> Tatarstan was "reelected" with something like 98% of
> the vote. Kalmykia is much the same.
>
> Lyubo, bratsy, lyubo, lyubo, bratsy, zhit!
>
> ËÞÁÎ, ÁÐÀÒÖÛ, ËÞÁÎ, ËÞÁÎ, ÁÐÀÒÖÛ, ÆÈÒÜ!
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
> ___________________________________
>
http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com