[lbo-talk] Islamofascism Awareness Week

John Thornton jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net
Thu Oct 25 12:43:32 PDT 2007


Jerry Monaco wrote:
> Simply put, the U.S. state is within some compass of your agency and
> my agency, and the Iranian state is not. Therefore you bear
> responsibility for the actions of the U.S. state. You don't bear
> responsibility of the actions of the Iranian state because it is not
> in the compass of your agency. At least in name, the rulers of the
> U.S. state act as agents for you and it takes more than words to
> negate the effect of that __de facto__ agency. That de de facto agency
> is both moral and practical. There is no collective responsibility in
> the abstract, but there is both relative responsibility and practical
> responsibility for the situations you can have an effect upon, as
> contrasted with the situations that you have no effect upon.
>

You must live somewhere other than the U.S. where the Government Administrators actually do as they please and take little to no notice of public desires. If the U.S. were a functioning democracy what you say would still not be completely true. I expend all my political energy working against the abuses of the U.S. Government and I am in no way truly responsible for the actions of the U.S. My options are rather limited. I can stay in the U.S. and fight or I can try to leave the U.S and remove any slight chance I may have to be an effective agent for change in the U.S. I would have a rather difficult time finding another country in which to legally reside since I have criminal convictions, both civil and political, in the U.S.


> Further, you have to take into account the effect of your words and
> actions. What will be the effect of you speaking up here, in the U.S.
> for the rights of women and homosexuals in Iran. Will it have any
> ameliorating effect on their suffering? I doubt it will and it will
> probably have the opposite effect. Meanwhile, here in the U.S. all
> that you do is contribute a bit more to the general demonization of
> the officially appointed enemy.
>

Your doubt is duly noted. I however disagree. You and I have no way to know for certain that Doug's words will not have some ameliorating effect on the suffering of someone in Iran. Perhaps simply knowing that there are comrades in the U.S. who care about their suffering will go some way towards helping them organize in some meaningful way or even offering some hope with the realization they are not as isolated as they may feel. Your's is a recipe to do nothing and feel smug about it.


> In general our responsibility for the actions of state institutions is
> directly proportionate to the amount of our privilege, power and
> freedom to act upon those institutions.

Now you're making sense. I have zero power and privilege in the U.S. I am at the bottom of the social strata, a poor minority with no ability to act upon state institutions. I may however have some effect on persons who do wield such power so while I may be effective as an agent for change I am in no way responsible for the actions of those institutions if I should fail to be effective in my quest to affect such changes in the persons who do hold power and privilege.

If I were free to leave the U.S. which I am not, you might make a case for my complicity. No country will legally allow my emigration to the best of my knowledge. I have actually tried and failed in this endeavor. I simply do not have the funds to "clean" my record sufficiently to make emigration elsewhere possible.

Perhaps you occupy a position of power and privilege in the U.S.? If you do I applaud your willingness to take responsibility for the actions of the U.S. Please end the Iraq war.

John Thornton



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