John Thornton
shag wrote:
> one thought: if you have some time, i'd highly recommend brint and
> karabel's _the diverted dream_. it's an excellent look at the
> vocationalization of schooling. b and k show how the dreams of manual
> laborers at the time were dreams of schooling in the liberal arts --
> education for the sake of education. those dreams were systematically
> diverted by an elite that was terrified of what might happen if such
> dreams ever came to fruition.
>
> sorry to sound flip, "read a book", but given the stuff you type at
> the list and others ideas you've expressed, i really think you'll
> appreciate the insights in this book.
>
> more in archives
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/2005/2005-November/023834.html
>
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/2000/2000-July/013675.html
>
> At 09:10 PM 7/22/2008, Joseph Catron wrote:
>> We seem to be having multiple conversations in this thread
>> simultaneously. I'll not dwell on the point, other than to say that I
>> read nothing in your reply below conflicting with my post, to which it
>> was apparently intended as a critical response.
>>
>> I will, however, note how some of the loaded language used here shapes
>> the conversation. Is the idea of professors as "hired help,"
>> obligated to help students prepare for their chosen careers, really so
>> outrageous? However we cut the numbers, I hope we can agree that
>> many, many students attend college with vocational goals foremost in
>> their minds.
>>
>> And why is conflating tenured academics with residential housekeepers,
>> or whatever else "hired help" means, so evocative? They're people who
>> do jobs, some parts of which they like more than others, for money,
>> right?
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 7:58 PM, John Thornton
>> <jthorn65 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> > For starters State University students and Community College
>> students have
>> > never made we wish for an explosive laden vest.
>> >
>> > My only elite college experience is at Harvard but I have heard from
>> > reliable persons that my impressions were typical of other similar
>> > institutions.
>> >
>> > The sense of entitlement at such schools is almost unbelievable unless
>> > you've spent much time with these fucks.
>> > Their attitude is, as someone pointed out, that the Professors and
>> > instructors are mere servants.
>> > People whose job it is is to validate the students preconceived
>> ideas about
>> > themselves as elites.
>> > I've never experienced that from any of the students at any of the
>> State
>> > Universities I've had the pleasure of associating with.
>> > You have to be taught such ideas from early childhood and State
>> University
>> > students seldom, if ever, receiving such developmental training.