[lbo-talk] Gay marriage

andie nachgeborenen andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com
Thu Nov 13 21:18:37 PST 2008


Although as far as I can tell from the research and anecdotal evidence, homosexuality is not a choice for Kinsey 5s and 6s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

Correct me if I am wrong, Brian, but while you can appreciate feminine pulchritude in the abstract, you actually find women sexually _un_attractive the way some men find other men to be sexually _un_attractive. The people for whom homosexuality is a choice, KInsey 2s-4s, who are basically opportunistic, will take a boy or a fella if they aren't any girls around or of it's socially expected, do not exhaust the spectrum.

I'm a Kinsey 2, I think Obama is kinda cute, for example, but my totally hypothetical celebrity sort of response to his attractiveness totally pales compared to my very strong although equally hypothetical reaction that Michelle Obama is pretty damn hot.

I agree with Carrol that we shouldn't use trhe argument, poor queers, they can't help their shameful condition and sick desires, so we musn't blame them. But there seems to be an error here if we think to reject that line we have to say what is not true for many gays and lesbians, they they don't choose to be gay, they find themselves that way.

The argument ought to be that love is good wherever you find it and lust is pretty generally good wherever you find it, and it doesn't matter a hoot whether your obscure object of desire is the one (or more) you want because you can't help it or because you can and that's what you picked.

After all, the conventional romantic way of talking about het love is also the language of compulsion. As you might expect I turn to the standards to make my point:

Comes a rain storm put rubbers on your feet Comes a snow storm you can get a little heat Comes love nothing can be done Comes a fire then you know just what to do Blow a tire you can buy another shoe Comes love nothing can be done

Don't try hiding cause there isn't any use You'll start sliding when your heart turns on the juice

Comes a headache you can lose it in a day Comes a toothache see your dentist right away Comes love nothing can be done

Comes a heat wave you can hurry to the shore Comes a summons you can hide behind the door Comes love nothing can be done Comes the measles you can quarantine the room Comes a mouse you can chase him with a broom Comes love nothing can be done

That's all brother if you've ever been in love That's all sister you know what I'm thinking of

Comes a nightmare you can always stay awake Comes depression you might get another break Comes love nothing can be done

You can legally download Sheila Jordan's version of this classic:

http://music.napster.co.uk/uk/song-17653064/Sheila+Jordan/Believe+in+Jazz/Comes+Love+(Nothing+can+be+done)

--- On Thu, 11/13/08, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:


> From: Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Gay marriage
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 2:28 PM
> andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> >
> > There used to be miscegenation laws in this country
> prohibiting blacks and whites to marriage. There are
> disanalogies for every analogy, and you may be right about
> race, although I don't think so -- many racist whites
> perceive being black as being lazy and violent, moral
> failings, for which for some confused reason their racial
> not-being-able-to-help-it-ness doesn't offer an excuse.
> Nonetheless, if you don't like this analogy, pick
> another.
>
> The Nazi's didn't seem to think
> not-being-able-to-help-it-ness of Jews
> being Jews was a sufficient reason not to set up the camps.
> In fact, I
> would guess that a general conviction of homosexuality not
> being a
> choice would intensify rather than ameliorate anti-gay
> attitudes. It's
> much better tactics, I think, to insist that gayness is a
> choice and a
> choice that must be honored.
>
> Carrol
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk



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