Wojtek
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Wojtek S <wsoko52 at gmail.com> wrote:
> RE: Sometimes, the Majority of Americans Are Really Stupid
>
> [WS:] I would not go that far. Humans are social creatures, and it is
> type of social interaction that determines their consciousness and
> behavior. The same people can act and think very stupid or vile in one
> situation and to something extraordinary in another. The Stanford Prison
> Study demonstrates that quite well.
>
> The problem is with the competitive nature of elections - it triggers the
> worst instincts in people. It is so, because the stakes and outcomes of the
> electoral process are so poorly defined that most people do not ordinarily
> see any incentive to participate in the process (the so-called free rider
> problem in the game theory). They must be incentivized to take this
> election business seriously.
>
> This incentivization almost never involves real rewards at least for
> ordinary people (businessmen are different, they get actual patronage
> support that makes them money.) It almost always involves symbolic
> rewards or rather illusions or rewards. Such illsuions are created by
> demagogues by erecting bogey men that scare people shitless and then
> offering "protection" from thosoe bogey men if elected. That evokes a lot
> of negative emotions in people and keep the whole business of electioneering
> going, even though people who vote get nothing out of it except the vile
> satisfaction of getting the ass of some imaginary evil kicked.
>
> In sum, it is the competition and symbolic incentivization to participate
> in elections that evokes the worst emotions in people, not their supposed
> meanness or stupidity. I am pretty sure that most Americans would not
> espouse such mean attitudes if they were somewhow shielded from the
> electioneering hype.
>
> wojtek
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Somebody Somebody <philos_case at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> [WS:] I agree with Doug. The root of the problem is the fiscal crisis,
>> which itself is rooted in the idiotic ballot system that California has.
>> In
>> other words, the problem is democracy i.e. mob rule which makes any
>> progressive policy impossible. Blaming the usual bogey men (racism,
>> capitalism etc.) obscures the basic fact that it is the way political
>> decisions are made - by pandering to the lowest common denominator - that
>> is the root cause of most what is wrong with this country.
>>
>> [Somebody:] I think this is right. Take a look at what Derek Thompson from
>> The Atlantic had to say about a recent poll:
>>
>> "Sometimes, the Majority of Americans Are Really Stupid
>>
>>
>> I cannot believe this Rasmussen poll:
>>
>> 51 percent believe canceling the rest of the stimulus money would create
>> more jobs.
>> That is insane.
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> The idea that canceling the stimulus would create more jobs implies
>> that passing the stimulus has actually killed more jobs than it's
>> created, which is bonkers... If nothing else,
>> the tens of billions we've sent to state budgets have, without
>> question, saved hundreds of thousands of jobs, like teachers, that are
>> supported by state taxes. It's just a very basic fact."
>>
>> In
>> fact this has now become the prevailing opinion out there in the
>> manicured suburbs and prairie hinterlands of America: that it was TARP and
>> the stimulus (which of
>> course, are conflated) that somehow caused the recession, instigated
>> double-digit unemployment, and ballooned the federal deficit. It's a
>> point of view so unhinged, so patently unfair, and unreasonable, it
>> would be like blaming welfare programs and a bloated federal government
>> for the disastrous FEMA response to Hurricane Katrina. Which, of course, is
>> precisely what conservatives argue.
>>
>> Marxists
>> can make a stink for their rest of their lives about how the
>> bourgeoisie controls the state apparatus and the ruling ideology... but
>> the fact of the matter is, the leading representatives in at least two
>> of the main branches of government in Washington are in many ways more
>> progressive, more
>> rational, and more *humane* than the bulk of the American people.
>>
>>
>>
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