On Feb 20, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Wojtek S <wsoko52 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Max: " I'd say any secessionist move would be a joke."
>
> [WS:] Max, you missed my point. Any secessionist move would be a
> joke at
> the present time, I agree. What I argued was something very
> different -
> namely a possible outcome of a hypothetical situation of a fascist
> movement
> started gaining access to power, and unlikely event at the present
> moment.
>
> My argument was that progression of fascism in the US would likely
> to be
> rather different from that in Europe. Unlike in Europe, where
> centralization
> of government made fascist consolidation of power possible, the US
> federal
> structure would make that consolidation rather problematic.
> Consequently,
> fascist advances would be uneven in the US, greater in some states
> and slow
> or none at all in other states. That situation, in turn, could
> results in
> internal tensions similar to those in the antebellum period, rather
> than a
> complete fascist takeover of the state as it happened in Germany.
>
> So if secession occurred, it would not be a goal pursued by some
> secessionist faction, but rather an outcome (perhaps even
> unintended) of the
> uneven spread of fascism from state to state. It is a very different
> argument than simply saying that some secessionist wingnuts are
> likely to
> achieve their objective.
>
> Again - this is a corollary to a hypothetical situation discussed in
> this
> thread pertaining to the possibility of a fascist movement in the
> US. Both
> Chip, to whose posting I replied and myself consider that
> possibility to be
> rather remote at the current time, but not ruled out altogether.
>
> Wojtek
Earth is far more likely to be taken over by Deep Ones than the Migo.
After all, the latter have the logistical challenge of sending a fleet
all the way from Pluto, while the Deep Ones just have to crawl out of
the sea.
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Max Sawicky <sawicky at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Not too long ago some of us viewed the Christian right as a neo-
>> fascist
>> threat.
>> They were able to mobilize and organize like crazy, much more than
>> what has
>> been observed thus far with the TP. They have realized a certain
>> degree of
>> political power and have done a lot of damage (I'm thinking Texas
>> school
>> books,
>> eliminating access to abortion), but at the same time the GOP has
>> been
>> selling
>> them out for decades. They did not react to this betrayal by
>> separating
>> and
>> recasting themselves, instead they fizzled. The same scenario is
>> conceivable
>> for the TP. If Obama tried to transcend neo-liberal boundaries
>> just a
>> bit, and/or
>> if the economy got a lot worse, or if there was some kind of
>> progressive mobilization,
>> the prognosis would be different.
>>
>> As things stand there does not seem to be much need for a fascist
>> movement, so the
>> main outcome of the TP is flailing around, followed by demoralization
>> and dissolution.
>> Remember how huge the Perot thing was, for a few microseconds? I'd
>> say any
>> secessionist move would be a joke.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:59 PM, Marv Gandall <marvgandall at videotron.ca
>> >
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2010-02-20, at 2:04 PM, Wojtek S wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> I think that a more likely outcome of the actual (as opposed to
>> potential)
>>>> growth of fascist movement in the US is the break-up of the union
>>>> with
>> some
>>>> states taken over by the fascists while other resisting them.
>>> ============================
>>> There is already secessionist talk by supporters of the Tea Party
>> movement, most recently from a state senator in South Carolina. I
>> expect the
>> TP supporters are heavily concentrated in the "red states",
>> especially the
>> South, where this sentiment has never really died. Is that the case?
>>>
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