[lbo-talk] Tea Party: less than meets the eye

c b cb31450 at gmail.com
Fri Nov 5 09:45:41 PDT 2010


Alan: I am in complete agreement with the folks on the list who argue that Obama's problems are not grounded in the racism of whites,

^^^^ CB:Yes, I know this is a main line here. This is fundamental, and y'all are wrong on this fundamental point. It messes up your whole political line.

Believe me. The vast majority of Black ( and probably most Brown ) people disagree with you on this point. People who don't even usually talk about politics, relatively apolitical people, are coming up to me and talking about the racism against Obama. I don't bring it up. They do. Black people who are normally on talkshows and what not known for arguing vigorously against complaints of racism, have come over to the majority side, pointing out all the racism against Obama. My opinion on this is basically representative of the opinion of the overwhelming majority of Black people. I know there are a few Black people who don't think so. But most do.

In the election, it was the upsurge of the right that had the most impact, and the right was against all the left program you list in your post, and just a Black President because of the symbolic importance of it. Black = red in a big way in America. Even centrist Black = red to the right. So, the right would have been as or more fired up if Obama had carried out your proposals. In other words, the main cause of the Democrats losses was not because they didn't do what you propose. Let me repeat that: the main cause of the Democrats losses was not because of they didn't achieve what you propose. This is another big problem with your analysis and that of many others. You ignore that the election turned on the anger of those opposed to what you propose, not on the disappointment of those who support ( to some extent; not as left as yours; they're mildly left) , what you propose. You are exaggerating or overestimating the breadth of support for the left program you outline in your post.

Look at Michigan governor race with which you are familiar. The Democrat ran against Wall Street , for a moratorium on foreclosures ( a power the Michigan governor has), for establishing a state bank, chose a Black woman mayor as a running mate, touted 6,000 jobs he had created as mayor of Lansing, very left. He lost by 20 points. You are ignoring that the voting population is not supporting the left program you propose, and that means Obama's problems are not grounded in failure to pursue the strong left program you propose. What's left to explain a big part of the anti-Obama surge is racism. Yeah, the old American buggaboo. No , it has not gone away. Yes, racists are jumping out of the woodwork because the President is Black. And less obvious and denied racism underlies lots of people just "not liking him anymore". Not to mention that to do what you propose would require mostly Congressional action, could not be done by Presidential Executive Order, and would not have been supported by Dem Blue Dogs.

As far as the "bully pulpit" theory, I'm not sure if you are kidding or what. Today the monopoly media controls how the White House can influence through speeches. Reagan only had a teflon cover because the media gave it to him. If they had portrayed his admin's story differently , lots of criticism would have stuck to him. So, the effectiveness of White House speeches has been limited by the media frame of it, the media treatment of the Tea Party as semi-rational, media failure to relegate to the fringe things like claims that Obama is a Muslim or socialist or arrogantly jamming something down people's throats.

^^^^

Alan: Obama had a fairly well organized multiracial population of kinda grassy netroots people - from traditional democrats to independent swing voters who expected him to publicly lead, publicly promote and publicly defend the kinds of reforms he explicitly said he was going to seek in terms of national defense, government opacity, economic policy, immigration policy, environmental policy, education policy and health policy

^^^^^ CB: The vast majority of Obama's supporters were not nearly as left as the average on this list. I don't know why people allow themselves that illusion. For one thing, most of the lefts on _this_ list did not support Obama. So , that is a hint right there that supporters of this lists ideal program were not a big percentage of Obama's supporters. The majority of Obama supporters were more to the center or just less political than this list.

So, similarly to my argument with Marv, your analysis goes astray when you claim that the current election result turned on Obama supporters in 2008 being disappointed that Obama didn' t try to enact the LBO-Talk program. That is twisted narcissism or something. First you don't support him in the campaign ; then you denounce him for not carrying out your program in office. Who do you think you are fooling, comrades ?

^^^^^ Alan: On immigration, how much support from the 95% (or so) of Hispanics who voted for him do you think he's wasted by being John McCain-lite in immigration... yeah, they are suing AZ, pretty weak tea.

^^^^^ CB: You need Congress for immigration reform. I bet Hispanics still voted Democrat. They did heavily in Nevada and Wisconsin, I read.

This is another general flaw in the arguments like yours. You ignore elementary Constitutional principles of the powers of the President and those of Congress. Recently somebody was on here claiming that the FD Roosevelt bank holiday was purely executive. Wrong. Congress had to pass a statutue as a premise for Roosevelt's action. Because of Blue Dogs and the arch-anti-democratic filibuster rule in the Senate ( and the Tea Party activism, unmatched by activism from the left, like people on this list) Congress wouldn't do a left program on immigration , or otherwise. You blithely and regularly ignore this fundamental law of American civics; your arguments or claims are majorly flawed because of this.

^^^ Alan: It should be clear that Obama is a DNC loyalist through and through and that the DNC holds no truck with the idea that there remain serious civil rights, feminist, envirionmental, educational, and cultural problems

^^^^ CB: Perhaps you mean DLC ? At any rate , no it is not at all clear that Obama holds no truck with the idea that there remain serious civil rights , feminist, environmental , educational and cultural problems. I wanna say that's _______. But I won't. On feminism especially, Obama has "passed" a lot.

More later



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