At 11:07 PM 2/3/2013, Carrol Cox wrote:
>This is a historical footnote and does not respond directly to Michael's
>subject line query.
>
>As he suggests, "meaningless work" is a feature of capitalism. My query:
>Prior to the rise and triumph of capitalism had _anyone_ ever been
>concerned, one way or another, with the meaning or non-meaning of work?
>Hence it would have been not just meaningless but unimaginable for the
>question of the meaning of work to be raised (for example) by one of
>Chaucer's pilgrims, or by any of the damned or the saved in Dante's world.
>If somehow raised the only response could have been some version of "Huh?"
>
>In English literature I believe there is nothing to suggest the question
>before Paradise Lost, where the significance of A&E's labor in Eden becomes
>of cosmological interest. There is a good deal directly or indirectly
>dealing with work in the Odyssey, but none of the references could be
>attached to Michael's question.
>
>Huge theoretical leap: Capitalism made ALL work meaningless by first raising
>the question of was work meaningful. No one had ever asked the question
>before, either implicitly or explicitly. Socrates put forth the slogan of
>Know Thyself -- which _meant_ Know your Place. It had nothing to do with
>modern concerns over self-knowledge, nor did it have anything to do with the
>"rightnefss" of the "place" in which one found oneself. It simply was the
>organizing principle of any society Socrates could imagine. It therefore
>while not raising the question in effect said that to raise such a question
>was unjust, a denial of justice.
>
>Carrol
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> > On Behalf Of michael yates
> > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:08 AM
> > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > Subject: [lbo-talk] Blog Psot: Why is our work so meaningless?
> >
> >
> > Full at http://cheapmotelsandahotplate.org/2013/02/02/lucky-to-have-a-
> > job/
> >
> > "Workers in a hospital are sick of management violating their collective
> > bargaining agreement. Their work is ever more stressful: hours keep
>getting
> > longer; patient loads rise; safety rules are ignored. They tell their
>union
> > steward that it is time to bombard the bosses with grievances before they
> > explode in rage. He tells them, "You better not do that. You're lucky to
>have a
> > job."
> >
> >
> >
> > In every industry in the United States, there are more people seeking
> > employment than jobs available. Conservatives and liberals alike say we
>have
> > to put men and women to work. They differ in how they would achieve this,
> > but both shout out the mantra, "jobs, jobs, jobs." Little is ever said
>about the
> > kinds of jobs that need to be created. What will they pay? Will they
>provide
> > benefits? Will they be interesting, safe, fulfilling, socially useful?
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps the reason we don't ask such questions is that we take our work
>for
> > granted, beyond our control and as inevitable as the rising sun. But
>looked at
> > in the long sweep of human existence, the jobs we do and the way we do
> > them are unlike anything we did before the rise of capitalism" . . .
> >
> > ___________________________________
> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
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