"When I see stuff like this, it makes me shake my head and not want to be involved. What is the point here? Is it to organize Blacks, atheists, Stalinists, or is it to organize Americans more broadly to oppose US policy? ..."
Etc., etc. I don't know where you're getting this "universalist narrative" crap; you seem to have simply made it up. And your aversion to Trots has you seeing them where there are none. You might check under your bed next!
As I said, your brand of whiny liberalism may have a role, as masturbatory and annoying as the rest of us find it. But don't act shocked that it hasn't caught on like wildfire in Palestinian communities. I doubt it will.
If you want something else, the onus is on you to make it happen. I have zero tolerance for those who complain that radical Palestinians don't organize white liberal efforts, or vice versa, really. We all are what we are.
On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 6:51 AM, Robert Naiman
<naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
> The problem with this - if one cares about political change in the United
> States, some people don't - isn't that it's too white. It's that it's too
> Trot. It's not trying to appeal to and move US public opinion. It's the
> self-congratulatory ultra-left, strutting its stuff, jerking itself off. If
> it were trying to move public opinion - especially in New York City - it
> wouldn't attack Jews for caring about Jewish lives. It wouldn't slam Jews
> for not having a universalist narrative and then try to substitute that with
> a pro-Palestinian narrative, rather than a universalist narrative.
>
> Dave Dellinger told the story that when he visited North Vietnam during the
> Vietnam War, Vietnamese government officials said to him, we love the
> anti-war demonstrations in the US, that's really great, we want to see more
> of that. But there's one thing that puzzles us, perhaps you could explain
> it. Why do we see anti-war demonstrators carrying NLF flags? The anti-war
> demonstrators should be carrying American flags.
>
> "Every shopkeeper knows the distinction between what men are, and what they
> say they are. But our bourgeois historians have not yet won this most
> trivial insight."
>
>
>
>
>
> Robert Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> (202) 448-2898 x1
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 5:15 AM, Joseph Catron <jncatron at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Robert, can you name a single successful movement in US history -
>> hell, let's be generous and say world history - that included only
>> whiny liberals?
>>
>> I'll be the first to admit whiny liberals have their role. Everything
>> takes an ecology of actors. But if we're all whiny liberals, I suspect
>> nothing's going to get done.
>>
>> Yes, the people involved in these actions are overwhelmingly
>> Palestinian, and predominantly Muslim. So what? There are others in
>> the city for those wanting something ... whiter.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 4:55 AM, Robert Naiman
>> <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
>> > When I see stuff like this, it makes me shake my head and not want to be
>> > involved. What is the point here? Is it to organize Palestinians,
>> > Muslims,
>> > Trots, or is it to organize Americans more broadly to oppose US and
>> > Israeli
>> > policy? If the latter, the rhetoric doesn't make sense. It attacks the
>> > adversary for having a narrative of defending Jewish lives rather than
>> > having a universalist narrative, but the competitor narrative it offers
>> > isn't a universalist narrative, but a "pro-Palestinian" narrative. Is
>> > that a
>> > basis for organizing Americans who aren't already members of the choir?
>> >
>> > Oh, look, the International Action Center is involved. What a surprise.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Robert Naiman
>> > Policy Director
>> > Just Foreign Policy
>> > www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> > (202) 448-2898 x1
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Joseph Catron <jncatron at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >> From: A.R. G via Marxism <marxism at lists.csbs.utah.edu>
>> >> Date: Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 10:22 PM
>> >> Subject: [Marxism] SOLIDARITY WITH THE PALESTINIAN UPRISING, 18 Oct
>> >> 5PM,
>> >> NYC
>> >> To: jncatron at gmail.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ********************
>> >> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>> >> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
>> >> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
>> >> *****************************************************************
>> >>
>> >> *From NYC Students for Justice in Palestine & NY4Palestine*
>> >>
>> >> https://www.facebook.com/events/1509792672665088/1509867779324244/
>> >>
>> >> *Sunday, 18 October 2015, 5PM Times Square*
>> >>
>> >> In the past few weeks over 30 Palestinians have been killed and more
>> >> than
>> >> 300 wounded in acts of IDF/settler agression in the West Bank, East
>> >> Jerusalem and Gaza.
>> >>
>> >> *BRING A PALESTINIAN FLAG AND A KEFFIYEH WITH YOU*. We will make Times
>> >> Square a SEA of Palestinian flags to show the zionists how many stand
>> >> with
>> >> our cause.
>> >>
>> >> In response to the justified uprising of the Palestinian people,
>> >> Zionist
>> >> activists have chosen to organize a 'Jewish Lives Matter' rally in
>> >> Times
>> >> Square this Sunday, October 18th at 5:00pm. They will be wearing blue
>> >> and
>> >> white to represent Israel, as well as IDF t-shirts. Besides the fact
>> >> that
>> >> they are appropriating the black liberation movement by hijacking the
>> >> slogan Black Lives Matter, they are holding a moment of silence for
>> >> murdered israelis without regard for the disproportionate violence and
>> >> death experienced by the Palestinians every day.
>> >>
>> >> They are glorifying the terrorist organization of the IDF, who are
>> >> responsible for the torture and murder of Palestinian civilians. In the
>> >> past week, over 20 Palestinian youth have been murdered by settlers,
>> >> many
>> >> of which have graphic video evidence being taunted by and mutilated by
>> >> israeli settlers during and after death. Where is their moment of
>> >> silence?
>> >> This Sunday, we stand against outrageous number Palestinian children
>> >> and
>> >> civilians that have been murdered by those belonging to the same
>> >> Zionist
>> >> group as those gathering in Times Square on this day.
>> >>
>> >> We stand against 'Israels right to defend' itself against innocent
>> >> children
>> >> and civilians who clearly pose no threat.
>> >>
>> >> We stand in solidarity with the movement for Palestinian liberation
>> >> from
>> >> 60+ years of Zionist occupation, violence, and settler-colonialism.
>> >>
>> >> We stand in retaliation to the appropriation of the black liberation
>> >> movement.
>> >>
>> >> We stand against Zionist repression, and racist Zionist ideology that
>> >> weighs israeli deaths as warranting more outrage than that of
>> >> Palestinians,
>> >> when Palestinian deaths are greater in number and weaker in
>> >> justification.
>> >>
>> >> Bring keffiyehs, flags, signs and join us on this day. Join us loudly
>> >> in
>> >> proclaiming that Resistance is not Terrorism, Occupation and
>> >> Colonialism
>> >> are Terrorism!
>> >>
>> >> *Endorsed by:*
>> >> NYC Students for Justice in Palestine
>> >> NY4Palestine
>> >> American Muslims for Palestine (AMP) NY & NJ
>> >> Al-Awda NY: The Palestine Right to Return Coalition
>> >> Samidoun Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network
>> >> International Action Center
>> >> Existence is Resistance
>> >> Labor for Palestine
>> >> NYC Solidarity with Palestine
>> >> Muslim American Society - MAS NY
>> >> Jews for Palestinian Right of Return
>> >> - Amith
>> >> _________________________________________________________
>> >> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
>> >> Set your options at:
>> >> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/jncatron%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> "Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure
>> >> mægen lytlað."
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
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